| Author | Message | ||
     Geezus (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
I haven't gathered the hard data yet, but it is plainly evident that time warner road runner cable broadband internet is punishing bittorrent users by limiting normal http use as soon as any bitorrent upload activity is detected. Here's a breakdown of what I notice on not only my account, but on other subscribers as well: 1. Normal internet use is unrestricted. web pages load up instantly, large file downloads via http, ftp, and any file sharing service other than bittorrent download normally. 2. Bittorrent DOWNLOADS dont seem to effect internet usage, speeds reach upwards of 400 kbps and regular http use is unaffected. 3. Bittorrent UPLOADS, on the other hand, can be as low as 5kbps and http is severely affected. Web pages take forever to load, and file downloads are much, much slower. However, bittorent downloads aren't effected. The pattern has been consistent for several months. The thing that is strange about it is that there can be NO downstream bandwidth from bittorrent, but so long as there is even a minute amount of upstream bittorrent bandwidth all of http is slowed to a near halt. I think this is evidence that time warner is punishing bittorent uploaders by restricting their normal http internet use. I, for one, am sick of it and would like to know what I can do to help put a stop to this blatent abuse by time warner. | ||
| Phil Karn (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
Are you sure that Time Warner is actually penalizing your http traffic? Could it just be upstream contention between outgoing Bit Torrent traffic and outgoing TCP acknowledgments for your incoming http streams? This can easily happen (in fact, it's almost guaranteed to happen) when your router does simple FIFO queuing on your upstream link. I built a Linux router that gives lower priority to my outbound Bit Torrent traffic, and it also does "fair queuing" across all active connections so one can't hog the queue. The effect on VoIP and interactive surfing is dramatic. A packet trace that shows this would be very useful. | ||
| (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
I have neotrace stored somewhere on my computer, would that be an adequate packet tracer? Let me know what I need to do in order to test this. Thank you very much | ||
| Robb Topolski (Funchords) Member Username: Funchords Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 |
I'm not familiar with that, but try it out. Here is a simple test case that you can use with or without the tracer running. 1. Choose a time that is not prime time in your area. Stop all Internet use. Clear your browser cache and close your browser (all windows). Start your browser. Note how long it takes you to visit 3 normally responsive sites. Clear your cache and close your browser. 2. Limit your BitTorrent upload speed to 10 kB/s (80 kb/s). Limit your BitTorrent download speed to 100 kB/s or 800 kb/s. Please note kB and kb are different. Start your client, make sure you are in torrents that are relatively new and popular. Wait about 10 minutes. 3. Note how long it takes you to visit the same 3 normally responsive sites. 4. Repeat the above tests using another computer on the same connection. 5. Repeat the above tests using your original computer on someone else's connection (non-TW) connection. Trying these tests with and without the packet tracer running should tell you whether it interferes with the results. | ||
| Phil Karn (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
Robb's test sounds pretty good. The important thing is that the limits you enter into Bit Torrent (he suggests 10 kB/s up, 100 kB/s down) are well within the normal limits of your cable modem including any speed caps. By running at non-prime time, you ensure that there's minimal contention with other users and your cable modem can easily achieve those speeds -- unless Time Warner is actually penalizing you because of your Bit Torrent traffic. Again, I strongly suspect that what you're seeing is simply congestion on your upstream channel. You're saturating it with your outbound Bit Torrent packets, and that's interfering with your HTTP GETs (web page fetch commands) and TCP acknowledgments for downstream data. People who are going to run Bit Torrent really have to understand these traffic issues so they can configure things (or better yet, install a smarter router) to keep Bit Torrent traffic from interfering with regular interactive use. I would be happy to document the Linux-based router configuration that I'm using here. It is not original with me, I got most of it from others. Once I got it properly tuned, it works extremely well. The before-and-after demo is just dramatic. | ||
| Anonymous |
I also have Time Warner, and this is what I notice. After a while running uTorrent through my netgear router I lose DNS across my network. Pretty much everything stops (HTTP, DC++, uTorrent) I shut off all the computers on my network except the one running uTorrent and noticed through Peer Guardian, that even though I wasn't uploading or downloading anymore, uTorrent was still generating a lot of traffic (I believe trying to look up trackers). Once I shut down uTorrent and do a quick reboot of my Cable modem/router I have DNS fine. I can recreate this problem by simply starting uTorrent. DC++ downloads, no matter what speed have no effect on my web browsing etc. Please point me to more resources on how to resolve this. I would prefer not to build another machine just to deal with this. I would strongly prefer to install a beefier router if that would resolve the issue. Thank you. | ||
| Robb Topolski (Funchords) Member Username: Funchords Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2007 |
Re: Losing your network and DNS The symptoms you are experiencing probably is not throttling by your ISP. You have set your outbound connection speed limit too high for your connection. Recommendation: 1. Do a speed test using the Java (not Flash) Test at http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest 2. Note your upload speed (example 278 kbps = kiloBITS per second) 3. Drop the last digit to convert to the correct upload limit (example 27 kB/s = kiloBYTES per second) 4. Set your upload speed limit to that number (right click on your upload speed indicator and you can set the limit there) Note: If you are doing uTorrent and DC++ at the same time, you will have to take that number (example 27 kB/s) and give some of it to uTorrent and some to DC++ (example 14 kB/s for uTorrent uploads, 13 kB/s for DC++ uploads). If the above steps do not help, then the problem is likely that your router's memory for NAT cannot handle the number of connections created by uTorrent. Take these additional steps: 1. In uTorrent's settings, disable DHT 2. In uTorrent's settings, set the maximum number of simultaneous connections to 100 If this helps, then you can try EITHER enabling DHT or increasing the 100 setting gradually to find the right maximum for the limits of your router. Re: Peerguardian You are logging in to a distributed database (called DHT) which helps you find peers when the tracker goes down. Even those who are not interested in your swarm will occasionally contact your IP. These are the hits that you are getting, and Peerguardian is simply dropping the packet. This is expected, you do not need to change anything. Robb Topolski Hillsboro, Oregon USA http://www.funchords.com/ | ||
| Anonymous |
Time warner IS punishing bittorrent users. I have noticed it for about the last 6 weeks or so. I will change ISP's if it continues. | ||
| So Cal (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
I got my connection turned off 3 times now by Time Warner for "spamming, sending Viagra and medicinal type emails" [bullshit].. this coincidentally happened the same 3 times after I downloaded a few torrents or opened utorrent, which is not very much lately ... when I called them they told me to install a virus program and gave me a link to buy one at [bullshit again] my computer is fine. I have NEVER had a problem with Comcast or my service until TW bought them out... in regards to your limited bandwith, it is most definitely related to your upload ... this will happen with any lengthy upload, ie: uploading large files via FTP | ||
| Anonymous |
I have had this happen for over a year, at one point Peer Guardian helped but now it seems not too, if i download at a speed greater then 100 kB/s then i have to restart my modem because all connections will cease. I am trying to figure out how to go about going around this but am having no luck. Its very annoying. | ||
| night walker (Nightwalker) Member Username: Nightwalker Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2008 |
TCPIP requires a portion of your upstream. Roughly 2-3% of your upstream in proportion to your download rate. So, if you are maxing out your upload, then you will not be able to 'surf' the web while torrenting. I recommend you limit your uplink side to 80% of your rated line speed. So if you have a 6mbit/512kbit line. Limit your sharing bandwidth to 410kbit (51K/s) | ||
| Anonymous |
I had a similar problem several years ago. It was solved by unchanging out my old cable modem, for a new one. | ||
| alexfalkenberg (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered Guest |
I have Turbo Roadrunner and upgrading away from any SB4100/SB4200 (ended up with an SB5100) cleared up my eternity's worth of trouble (that TW still has never addressed in any way). I'll add that it felt like BT was being throttled or handled in some way, but I no longer believe that to be true. More here (and throughout the site, on the full, painful history): http://www.alexfalkenberg.com/2008/04/14/time-warner-milwaukee-roadrunner-proble m-may-finally-be-fixed/ | ||
| Anonymous |
time warner is definitely gating/limiting client downstream speed for using torrent. they do it by assigning a crappy blacklisted IP address (what happened a year ago) or simply by dropping downstream speed by a factor of 20. Since their DHCP assigns IPs by MAC address you can just change the MAC address your router reports to the network and you will receive a new IP free of the strictures previously provided to you by the nice people at Time Warner. (Or if you're rich you can just get a new router/switch.) When the ONLY way to fix this is by getting a new IP, and Time Warner's policy is to never change your IP for you, and the problems begin within 24 H of operating a torrent client, then the answer is abundantly clear. Any other fix is a coincidence. The problem persists regardless of the concurrent running of torrent. In other words if torrent is off or has been off for three months the problem will persist. The problem persists per IP, and if you change your MAC address but keep everything else in your router the same, well, ding, it's your ISP, namely your ISP doing something they'd rather not discuss with you. Fortunately you can change the way you get that IP. Just be sure to power cycle your cable modem after changing your router's MAC. |